Curse

Amity and Truth · Sep 23, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Actually. If you're to take the word "grind" that ultra serious than do it for real.

Starting the game is a grind. You hit the Icon every time you start the game. Damn. All the grind having to click the Icon. And then, logging in... yikes, grind, everytime. Typing your e-mail and password. Grind. Wooohoo, selecting your character even though you know them full well. Everytime you login. Grind. Killing an enemy you have killed before. Grind. Getting experience points. Grind. Doing a mission. Grind. Buying a skill. Grind. Reading Questdescriptions. Grind. Reading Skilldescriptions. Grind. Hitting your attackbutton everytime. Grind. Casting a spell you've cast before. Grind.

Honestly, if you're overzealous with the word grind. Go and use healthy measures. The lines above this are of course not considered grind (so i do hope but there is probably one ultra freak who even considers those things grind). But, what exactly is grind?
For most it is doing something repeatedly. Okay. So this makes the lines above correct again, doesn't it? You HAVE to login everytime you want to play after all. Every... single... time. If you actually read texts while you proceed in the game and use half a braincell you don't even have to go out, hunting certain enemies as someone allready mentioned above.

And yes, face the sad truth. If 5-10 minutes of killing enemies are considered grind by you (it's your own fault you have to do that. After all you could have played normally and have gotten everything if only you had read the texts) than there will never be a game that is "right" for you. Asking to remove the insane (!!1111one wtf eleven 11!!!1!!) 5-10 minutes of "grind" from a game IS asking to get things instantly without lifting a finger.

Xenrath · Sep 23, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Can you write a more caustic baiting response? Continued strawman argument doesn't change the fact that for many titles you simply have to have large sums of gold or just kill the same few things over and over (in this particular case). Farming is a form of grinding, like it or not.

Edit: and I didn't personally ask for it to be removed nor for "instatitles" as you seem to be stuck in thought about. As some people haven't read, I suggested for more than just farming titles e.g. like the explorer/protector ones, I'm sure Anet could think up a few other such titles. If you want to farm/grind for a title that's fine but it doesn't hurt to have other avenues too, does it?

Kaguya · Sep 23, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

Asking to remove the insane (!!1111one wtf eleven 11!!!1!!) 5-10 minutes of "grind" from a game IS asking to get things instantly without lifting a finger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

Not even the FOW Armor is any grind compared to what you get handed in other games.

Please share your farming tips, how do I get FOW armor in 5-10 minutes instead of 5-10 days?

What it comes to Sunspear Title, I doubt 5,000 promotions is supposed to be gained during the tutorial island. The rewards probably will go up at the mainland, and you'll probably have to kill few thousand monsters anyways.. I wouldn't go calling the title grind yet, unless the max tiers are something comparable what they are on Luxon/Kurzick faction titles.

ChaoticCoyote · Sep 23, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

The problem with grinding is that its easy, and therefore boring. Thats why I stopped doing UW farming, because it bored me.

That doesn't change the fact that my character is currently forced to grind.

I never had to "grind" for Sunspear Points. Simply talk to every scout you pass, and you'll gain lots of points simply by doing quests. You have to kill the monsters *anyway*, so you might as well get double experience and Sunspear Points.

Now, to reach Sunspear Marshall, I *do* expect some grinding will be in roder. But then, all maxed titles require grind, and are entirely optional.

Xenrath · Sep 23, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

But then, all maxed titles require grind, and are entirely optional.

That bit's not quite true, e.g. the aforementioned Protector and Explorer titles. It would be nice to see more along those lines which are rewards for achieving objectives other than having a lot of gold or killing a lot of the same thing. Sunspear one seems to be a bit of a hybrid, you get rewarded for doing quests and stuff but can also progress it by repeatedly killing something.

Avarre · Sep 23, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Please share your farming tips, how do I get FOW armor in 5-10 minutes instead of 5-10 days?

What it really comes down to is relativity. Compared to some things, a turtle is fast. But in the scope of all moving things, the turtle is in no way 'fast'.

Likewise, in the scope of all games, GW does not have any real grind. The only possible grind in GW is collecting skillpoints for 1-char UAX.

Amity and Truth · Sep 23, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

...

Please share your personal insight why you're taking things out of context? When i'm talking about the Sunspear Points i'm not talking about the FOW. The FOW Armor is an example because many folks whine about the grind about it which is simply not there as you can just play casually for a while and get it without doing anything besides normal playing. Yep, not even farming. So what grind?

This of course doesn't apply if you buy other things in the meantime, d'uh. But than again it's your personal fault as it is your personal fault for not reading the Texts.

Xenrath
Provide an argument instead of just calling my valid argument names. To some, the explorer and protector titles are the most severe grind of them all. Still don't get my point? I doubt you will ever do then.

Avarre · Sep 23, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Farming is a form of grinding, like it or not.

Just another reference to my post before, GW grinding is tame compared to other game grinding. So much so that in comparison, there isn't any.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to spamkill Hephasto the Armorer for that 0.000000571% chance of a Zod rune dropping.

MelechRic · Sep 23, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Just another reference to my post before, GW grinding is tame compared to other game grinding. So much so that in comparison, there isn't any.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to spamkill Hephasto the Armorer for that 0.000000571% chance of a Zod rune dropping.

Once again the same illogical argument:

The pan that just came out of my 650F oven isn't hot because it's not the same temperature as the surface of the Sun. Therefore I can barehand that pan.

It's all relative.

Avarre · Sep 23, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Relative to your skin, or other household items, the pan is hot. Putting the pan in comparison to the sun is an illogical argument.

Comparing Guild Wars to other online games however, is not.

Kaguya · Sep 23, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

Please share your personal insight why you're taking things out of context? When i'm talking about the Sunspear Points i'm not talking about the FOW. The FOW Armor is an example because many folks whine about the grind about it which is simply not there as you can just play casually for a while and get it without doing anything besides normal playing. Yep, not even farming. So what grind?

I thought you said that even FOW isn't a grind ;P

You can do every "grind" in every game "casually", so there really isn't any grind in any game, nor there ever will be. A full set of FOW would require 120 ectos, plus some other materials, but ecto is the center of it all. How easy is it to get 120 ectos? To get them as "ordinary drops" it takes pretty long time even when playing 'hardcore'. Even longer if you play it "casually". And I don't think you can even bump into 120 ectos by playing normally, there really isn't much point to go to FoW/UW after you have completed the quests once, after that it's just running around killing monsters one after another. The game isn't open ended, you complete the campaign, you are "done". You have the option of trying to work for the titles, which of all are essentially grinds. Run around every single nook and cranny in the map, kill Luxons kazillion times, kill Kurzicks kazillion time, kill kazillion monsters.

Thenagain, someone might do those. Go around the places, thinking the title and how cool that can be. Then gets bored. It either takes too long, is too hard, too annoying, whatever. You start to think why on earth you even did all that repetitive crap. It was fun once, but then it got dull.

Atleast that's what I think grind is. Something that isn't fun anymore, something that is just dull stupid doing some stupid thing over and over again, the reward for all that isn't worth the work.

Maybe there's a ton of my personal frustration at MMOs in general, I've worked my butt off on Anarchy Online, making it to maximum level of 220, which of last levels required killing one single type rock monsters over and over again for few weeks non-stop. I tried to go for the Master Cartographer title, but getting stuck at 99.7% with no clue where those remaining 0.3% are was just so heavy blow that I gave up. Not worth going through every place again finding those two pixel gaps. I did enjoy getting the elites title, it was fun, I got around a lot, saw new places etc.

Ohwell, this turned into a rant now but the bottom line is, in my opinion, that grind is what person defines it to be, usually the moment when they aren't enjoying what they are doing anymore (thus, making the Back in the good ol' game we had to do this and eeeven more-argument void. We all have done some stupid things during our lives. Spending those 24/7 for a year in virtual world grinding might be one of those, times go on, maybe new games don't require us to grind so much. No-one keeps reminding us "how in the old days we had to take care of the farm by hand and there even wasn't electricity back then" in real life either. Progress, time moves on.). For example, trying to get a collectible drop from a monster in GW, getting a single one to drop takes ages, especially if you have to get them with help of henchies, not to mention getting 3 to 5 of them.

WhiteZombie · Sep 23, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos the Defiler

ya...i think you would need to farm big time to get Marshal :/

in the preview at least. when the real game hits, expect to need to be at least marshal rank to progress with the story

Oznog · Sep 23, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Where do you get the scout buffs?

WhiteZombie · Sep 23, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oznog

Where do you get the scout buffs?

scouts stand by the res shrines in nightfall. talk to them and theyll give you a hunting buff, which gives you double exp and 1 point for each monster you kill in that race, out of 'insects' (lances and spiders), 'plants' (ibogas and jacarandas), 'skales', and 'mandragors'.

Xenrath · Sep 23, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

Xenrath
Provide an argument instead of just calling my valid argument names. To some, the explorer and protector titles are the most severe grind of them all. Still don't get my point? I doubt you will ever do then.

Ok firstly, a "strawman argument" is not calling names. Neither is "caustic". Both are accurate descriptions of your responses, especially the one where you've gone over the top with bold/indignant response. Grind/farming/repetive strain injury/whatever you want to call it, yes it does exist in other games too but just because of that does not mean it magically doesn't exist in GW. That is false logic and a strawman argument. It still exists, perhaps less than some other games and perhaps more than others. Hence, strawman argument (weak argument) - what are all the people in ToA there for? Most of them are there to farm/grind for gold/ecto. Which is needed for several titles, as they simply amount to having millions of gold to buy them.

I fail to see how explorer/protector tiles can even be remotely compared to grinding/farming/whatever word you think appropriate. As in both those particular titles you need to actually progress throughout the whole game and do extra stuff beyond just playing it. That's not the same as repeatedly farming for a large wad of cash to buy a title e.g. Drunkard.

Whatever, I've not for a moment suggest taking away that, just to add more things for people who don't necessarily enjoy doing the same thing in the same few spots over and over again. Everyone wins that way, you can go do the same thing over and over if you like, or you can do something which progresses a bit more. Currently the titles mostly favour the former method.

MelechRic · Sep 23, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Relative to your skin, or other household items, the pan is hot. Putting the pan in comparison to the sun is an illogical argument.

Comparing Guild Wars to other online games however, is not.

Nope, not illogical. Both the pan and the sun are hot items. They do in fact have a relative temperature. However, the fact that one is less hot than the other doesn't mean it has no heat at all.

The crux of your argument (if I understood it) was essentially that guild wars has no grind because it has much less grind than other MMOs.

That's illogical. At least to me.

ThunderStruck · Sep 23, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Ok, bringing this back on topic...

I think they should only give points for this title track from quests, and let even foreigners do all quests as well (but not give rewards like attribute points to foreigners). Then the maximum rank of this would be when all quests were completed!

Kaguya · Sep 23, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderStruck

Ok, bringing this back on topic...

I think they should only give points for this title track from quests, and let even foreigners do all quests as well (but not give rewards like attribute points to foreigners). Then the maximum rank of this would be when all quests were completed!

Agreed on this, it seemed quite cool at first when I didn't know you could just kill monsters for them for the first 15 minutes.. Now it's just a pure farming title, but in a way that's better if you want to get the Sunspear title on multiple charas, doing some superannoying quest 6 times is quite... annoying. :b

There was ''Canthan Quests title track'' on early Factions screenshots, but they unfortunately dropped that from the retail version, it would have been quite neat. :<

The Herbalizer · Sep 23, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

I wonder what it is with the Guildwars crowd that as soon as something is not "instant give away" they start whining and call it grind :/
You have not seen grind yet. Trust me. Not even the FOW Armor is any grind compared to what you get handed in other games.

That is so true. Some people think that because they bought the game they should have everything given to them.

Seras_Loneheart · Sep 23, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

So, back on subject...anyone going for marshal to see if theres another after it?